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Talk:Dragon Ball Super (anime)
Consistency with GT Discussion Please tell me this isn't some of troll edit or some kind of cruel sick joke! JokerJay779 (talk) 15:45, April 28, 2015 (UTC) It's real http://www.toei-animation.com/en/content/new_dragon_ball_super (talk) 16:07, April 28, 2015 (UTC) Awesome! So Toriyama had like nothing to do with GT right? That is why it sucked? So since he is on board doing the characters and story then this will be way better then GT. JokerJay779 (talk) 21:44, April 28, 2015 (UTC) : ""For GT, all I did was come up with the title, design, the initial main cast and some of the machines, and I also did a few images."" — Toriyama, below his sketch of Super Saiyan 4 Goku for Dragon Box GT. Dragon Ball Super is actually going to be written BY him. ~~TenTailedFox'' [[User talk:Ten Tailed Fox|<'talk'>]]'' 22:22, April 28, 2015 (UTC) ::This is identical to what he has done so far for DBS (#NewAcronym). Where's the quote that he will be doing any, actually I don't even know what you mean by "written by". You're suggesting he will be writing all the episode dialogue maybe? He didn't even do that for the original Dragon Ball anime. It's more likely that Toei staff will write the dialogue, and mash in all the inevitable inconsistencies that only nerds like us will pick up on. As far as I know though, no word on who's writing the dialogue. 22:34, April 28, 2015 (UTC) Well since Toriyama is gonna be a lot more involved now I don't we are gonna get another GT. It may be as not as good as the original DBZ but at least it will be a good enough show to watch. JokerJay779 (talk) 22:58, April 28, 2015 (UTC) :The sources don't say Toriyama is going to be a lot more involved. He's doing initial conceptual stuff, but I'm guessing he passes the dialogue along to Toei like he did with GT. On the bright side, we can certainly expect animation quality to be 20 years advanced. 23:01, April 28, 2015 (UTC) :: The seiyu's of the series talked about Toriyama writing the plot and character designs. That's far more than what he did for Dragon Ball GT.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 23:11, April 28, 2015 (UTC) :::No, it's the same. Either way, plot events usually determine whether or not series are compatible. 23:17, April 28, 2015 (UTC) :::: The sources say he is writing the story and even the Fuji TV producer, in Toei's press release, states that Toriyama himself is writing the plot. This differs from GT, where Toriyama himself admits that he didn't write it. In fact, the Japanese credits only list him as the original author (as in the creator of the Dragon Ball franchise). GT is no longer a canon debate. Its over. GT is non-canon. ~~TenTailedFox'' [[User talk:Ten Tailed Fox|<'talk'>]]'' 23:30, April 28, 2015 (UTC) ::::: Additionally, both the Toei Press release and Kazenshuu list Toriyama as both the story author and the original author, which GT never does and never will. ~~TenTailedFox'' [[User talk:Ten Tailed Fox|<'talk'>]]'' 23:32, April 28, 2015 (UTC) Ten Tailed Fox, on a side note, can you please use a signature template to hide the full text of your signature? It adds a lot of clutter when editing in source mode, which is required for advanced formatting editing. To the issue, you did not answer my question about what you mean when you say Toriyama is writing it. We have clarified that Toriyama came up with the conceptual plot. The actual series writing of dialogue has not been attributed to anyone yet. You are 100% wrong about the GT credits. Toriyama is is credited as the series author in addition to a separate credit as the original manga author, as clarified from these screenshots of the credits. That is a direct source that cannot be ignored. Credits from a completed work are fact. Press releases are a prediction, and may change by the time the series is completed. If the DBS project is cancelled we'll sure feel like idiots for taking action based on plans. The rational thing to do is wait until there is enough information that no speculation is required, and we're not there yet. 23:56, April 28, 2015 (UTC) :Could have sworn Toriyama did say so. He worked on them, he wrote them. Dude, you're obviously just clinging onto GT like its a neglected child even though it has been retconed over, and over, and over again. And Toriyama never truly wrote on GT, he has said so several times, those Dub Credits were false. If you have a source which says Toriyama didn't say Battle of the Gods and Revival of F aren't canonical to his manga, show it please, since every press every post I've ever read on both SAID that they were.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 00:11, April 29, 2015 (UTC) ::Requiring a source that anything is canon or not is pointless, as Toriyama and Toei don't use the fan term canon ever. Toriyama is credited as the original author (hint, hint: manga) on Battle of Gods. The screenplay (as in 100% of the actual writing for this film) was written by Yûsuke Watanabe. A lot of what you said appears to be fluff attacks on me. Stick to the facts and don't guess what I'm thinking, it detracts from the discussion. 00:19, April 29, 2015 (UTC) ::Xenoverse has made GT an alternate timeline, like future trunks timeline. Toriyama has much more influence and control over this new series, GT is basically a giant filler episode.. ::http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/04/28/new-dragon-ball-super-tv-series-announced-for-2015/ QuakingStar (talk) 00:23, April 29, 2015 (UTC) ::: But Toriyama goes onto say that Battle of the Gods takes place between the last two manga chapters and acts like its in tune to his manga. Videl is pregnant. Bulma has a birthday. Vegeta shows the character development he got. Toriyama had a massive amount of involvement and treated it just like he did his own manga. Same with Revival of F. 'Canon' isn't a fanmade term either, Ten-Tailed Fox explained it just fine. And not only that, Toriyama created a canonical timeline of the post-Z events without ANY GT mention. ::: And you have to admit, it feels like you're putting too much stock in a series that is outdated and contradicted by later information and movies and an new anime. This is the only site I've ever seen that still lists GT as canon instead of labeling what everyone else has guessed: that is not.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 00:26, April 29, 2015 (UTC) ::: The only thing where GT is canon, would only be the SSJ4 Transformation.. QuakingStar (talk) 00:41, April 29, 2015 (UTC) :::: Doesn't seem like even that is canon anymore. Its been retconed with the addition of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 00:45, April 29, 2015 (UTC) :::: Not necessarily, if GT has in fact been turned into an alternate universe like Xenoverse says, then it is still part of it all.. just not part of the REAL, main timeline. QuakingStar (talk) 00:47, April 29, 2015 (UTC) Xenoverse is a video game with no involvement from Toriyama whatsoever. Toriyama has had the same involvement with DBS so far that he did with GT, and the only press release indicates that will continue to be the case. Filler is a term for non-manga based anime episodes used to delay while the manga is being written, and neither GT nor DBS qualify. Canon is a fan term when used to describe Dragon Ball material, and Ten Tailed Fox's use of the term is a fan's use of the term. So is the use in our Manual of Style, all fan usage. Videl being pregnant (with Pan) brings it closer to GT continuity, not farther. Bulma's birthday and Vegeta training are obviously expected in a 10 year gap. To me, the only interesting continuity question about DBS concerning GT is whether or not the plots will contradict each other, and we don't know that yet. 00:52, April 29, 2015 (UTC) The problem with your argument, is that no matter how much we debate or how much proof is brought from our or your end. You are obviously biased to GT, hell.. SSJ4 Goku is even in your Icon Image and your name is even 10XKamehameha which is a GT only version of the Kamehameha. QuakingStar (talk) 00:57, April 29, 2015 (UTC) : No, those events were to show the movie was in canon to the manga. Canon is a term that is used everywhere, why should Dragon Ball be any different 10x Kamehameha? And the moment Gods of Destruction and Super Saiyan God were revealed was the moment that Dragon Ball GT was completely shown not to happen. Its not even a matter of continuity at this point: there are elements of GT that aren't in the manga at all. The Tuffles for example never existed in the primary source. Toriyama had extensive involvement in the new movies, moreso than any involvement in GT. And then, we get a revelation of a new series...yet still the clinging to GT happens instead of a reevaluation of everything we have to do here. That isn't right.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:00, April 29, 2015 (UTC) ::I think it's unfair of you to claim I have a bias based on a picture I posted. I could claim that Ten Tailed Fox is biased against movies being canon because he has experience with Naruto, but I don't because that's irrelevant. I'm presenting facts only, not my opinions. Frankly, I think using the word canon is completely useless because the content owners don't use the term themselves. Star Wars and Sherlock Holmes use canon, not Dragon Ball. ::Back to facts and not opinions, when we break it down, all we got today was an announcement that another anime series is in the works. We need more information to make important conclusions, such as whether or not Beerus, Whis, and the SSG form will appear, and whether or not this series will have plot contradictions (only thing I can think of is permanent main character death) with GT. 01:03, April 29, 2015 (UTC) SuperSaiyaMan, your argument about elements not in the manga at all applied to Xenoverse, BoG, OVA's, and DBS, as well as GT. Irrelevant. 01:04, April 29, 2015 (UTC) :Hey guys, quick question. Are we discussing re-categorizing everything on the site into canon vs. non-canon, or are we discussing putting these two movies at a higher level of canon than GT? Our Manual of Style uses levels, not yes/no. 01:05, April 29, 2015 (UTC) : Except I'm not using Xenoverse. Goku's Return OVA, BOG, and ROF all had extensive involvement by Toriyama. They were tied into the series. Again, this is the ONLY site, (a wiki for god's sake) which still treats GT as canon instead of putting it where it really was. Ten-Tailed Fox isn't being biased, however, it kind of feels like you are.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:08, April 29, 2015 (UTC) :: You couldn't argue that. Toriyama himself said he considers the movies as part of a different timeline than his series, just like Future Trunks' time—with the exception of BoG and RoF (he specifically cites the first 13 DBZ movies and the first 3 DB movies). But he's right, guys. This wiki has never done its job when it comes to the facts and we shouldn't be trying to raise our expectations for this announcement either. The press release says the new anime will tie into the latest movie "Resurrection F". The admins ignore it. Toriyama is credited as the original story author and the story author for this series in the press release. The admins ignore it. At this point, its time for a new Dragon Ball Wiki: one that isn't afraid to adapt to the times and will look at the facts from an unbias stance, rather than as a fan who only wants their series to be right and screw the original author and everyone else like is done here. It's just like SaiyaMan said. This wiki is known across the anime Wikias for its inaccuracy and blatant ignoring of facts, as well as being a breading ground for speculation in what is supposed to be an encyclopedic environment. For the time being, I'm pulling out. This wiki is hopeless. ~~TenTailedFox'' [[User talk:Ten Tailed Fox|<'talk'>]]'' 01:12, April 29, 2015 (UTC) Correct, Toriyama considers the movies as a different dimension, no arguments. Garlic Jr. saga is referenced in the manga, but that's the only exception I know of. Wrong about the press release calling it a "tie-in", it just says DBS will follow the recent movie releases. Right about Toriyama being listed as the author, same as GT. I welcome your creation of a new wiki, and thank you for your contributions. 01:17, April 29, 2015 (UTC) There is another wikia, haven't really delved into it yet Ten Tails. http://www.dragonballencyclopedia.com/qdb/Dragon_Ball_Encyclopedia It looks like it might be what you're looking for. QuakingStar (talk) 01:19, April 29, 2015 (UTC) :I promise tha I'm carrying no bias and only relying on facts. I will say that every. single. time. a new piece of Dragon Ball media comes out, a group of new users shows up, does not read the Manual of Style (which you have clearly not, SuperSaiyaMan) and attempts to retcon a slew of material. 01:20, April 29, 2015 (UTC) ::DBE is pretty similar to this site, I'd recommend http://ultradragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Ultra_Dragon_Ball_Wiki 01:22, April 29, 2015 (UTC) :::That's...a FANON wiki.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:33, April 29, 2015 (UTC) ::::Make a manga-only wiki if that's what you want. It's an obvious bias against non-manga material, but something like dragonballmanga.wikia.com is probably available. I'll even help, or avoid it completely, your choice. 01:37, April 29, 2015 (UTC) Toriyama is doing the retconing. Not the users. The Manual of Style may guide this wiki, but it doesn't guide Dragon Ball or Akira Toriyama. This is my wiki: Dragon Universe Wiki. Its only a day in production, but it's high time a Wikia wiki got Dragon Ball right and this one just isn't doing its job. It refuses to heed change, the articles are written in no particular style (you have quotes in the text because no one monitors what is actually going in, save, when like Goku20, they don't like a user; then it's a feeding frenzy). Sourced information is thrown out the window like it is nothing and then the newbie gets attacked, rather than the aggressor user. A new series gets announced and we have admins ignoring the facts left and right. That will not the be the case there. Sysops will respect the users and the content and the users won't be allowed to bully anyone or use the "rules" to bully them either. You do realize this isn't just my opinion, yes? I cannot even begin to count the number of people who warned me about this place—good respectable users too—and now I see why. This is how the Wikia community sees this place. I can only hope my wiki will be much safer and productive for those who wish to contribute. ~~TenTailedFox'' [[User talk:Ten Tailed Fox|<'talk'>]]'' 01:35, April 29, 2015 (UTC) :Using the manga as your only primary source is an obvious bias, but I hope for the best in your new wiki. I fully acknowledge that a select group of manga-biased users exist and would like to omit anything not written by Toriyama. However, that is against Wikia's neutral point of view and non-biased policy, as this community has interpreted them. 01:41, April 29, 2015 (UTC) ::Also, Wikia legal policy states that anyone can use work done by editors here (like the articles themselves), but the article must be used as a reference. Copying the article content, even just pieces of it, is illegal. I notice that you have already done so, so please either remove the parts of the articles here that you have copied, oe put a reference somewhere on the page to the list of contributors that worked on the article here. 01:46, April 29, 2015 (UTC) :::Manga is the primary source on most anime-based wiki's. Its the first and most important area of a work here.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:43, April 29, 2015 (UTC) ::::I fully agree. First an most important, but not the only. We list information from all officially, licensed sources. No fan work of course. 01:46, April 29, 2015 (UTC) ::: The manga is the only primary source. Anything written by the original author is a primary source. Everything based on that, like the anime, is a secondary source. Everything based on the anime (like GT was) is a tertiary source. That's how literature works. Its not bias. That's how educated human beings treat a work of literature. Not this wiki, though, and that's exactly why it is known for being unreliable as a source. ~~TenTailedFox'' [[User talk:Ten Tailed Fox|<'talk'>]]'' 01:46, April 29, 2015 (UTC) Humans beings that are also Dragon Ball fans are more familiar with the anime then the manga. My source is the poll on our home page. Ignoring everything that's not manga is absolutely bias, and doing so when most of your readers are anime viewers is hugely detrimental. Educated human beings understand what the purpose of a website is before demanding it be altered. 01:51, April 29, 2015 (UTC) ::FYI, no copied content on DUW, my apologies for looking too fast. 01:58, April 29, 2015 (UTC)